Urban Jacksonville

Every issue with education needs to be looked at individually. One of the big problems with our schools is that they're viewed as big problems!

Yes, they are big problems. Not only for us in Jacksonville, but for everyone else in the whole country. However, our schools are a big problem because of a seemingly endless amount of smaller ones. The only way we'll get them fixed is one at a time and each one needs to be attacked independently from the others.

Here's some examples:

Parents aren't getting involved in their children's education... How about we pay (or provide some other really great incentive) parents whose kids do very well? You can have auto-pay waivers for parents with children with disabilities and such.

FCATs not being good indicators of real education... Improve the tests! The test should test *everything* a student should reasonably know at their grade level. Even things that aren't taught in school (remember: Parental involvement) like ethics. Get rid of the whole must-pass-to-advance aspect of the tests and instead make them what tests are for: Tracking problem areas so you can correct them.

Teachers not being properly trained... I don't understand this. Unless it is some new required piece of software/hardware that they have to use, why do they need training? Isn't that why they got a Masters in Education? I'm all for keeping up-to-date in the world of educational instruction, but teachers already know how to teach. The idea should be, "Let them and help them!" and not, "Force them and blame them!"

Kids not caring... Give them a reason to care! The parental incentives might be enough in this area, but there's always ways you can reward kids for doing well that they'll appreciate. Gift cards are great--especially if they're not rationed and awarded only to the best students.

I've been to some local high schools here in Duval for IT work and the overall feeling of these places was much more like a prison that it was like an environment for learning. There were police officers present and they were enforcing the most meaningless rules... One kid was ordered to remove a headband--very rudely and overbearing--right in front of me. Police officers should be enforcing the *law* not arbitrary school rules! They've become fashion police in the most literal sense!

Then there's IT (where I really am an expert): What really pissed me off is that our schools are wasting so much money on proprietary, expensive, and unnecessary/useless software for these schools. There's so much free software out there that is both better and easier to use!

Also along those lines is free books! Yes, there's actually excellent free textbooks for elementary school children all the way up to master's level online that can be printed and bound (like a normal book) for at-cost. Some links along these lines...

http://textbookrevolution.org/
http://oerwiki.iiep-unesco.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikijunior

-Riskable
http://riskable.com
"An education is what you make of it, but college graduates would have you believe that an education is what makes you. "

Thanks, UTurn, for a different perspective.

You are correct, the 1/2 days are really "early release" days.

And if I had my way I would never go to another staff meeting ever again.

Making parents care...wow, there are so many different dynamics involved with that one: poverty, kids having kids, how parents were brought up, misguided priorities, society's fixation on immediate gratification...just thinking about tackling that one makes my brain hurt.

I still hate the FCAT. In searching for websites I came across a few:
- many devoted to the Big Business side.
- a few against that were, unfortunately, a little melodramatic. "Tender self esteem damaged" and other drama.

I don't see the "too many days off" thing at all! Our kids get normal holidays, which they need and deserve. In-service days are basically "staff meetings" for the teachers. Teachers are in their individual classrooms all other days - there is no opportunity for the teachers & administration of the school to get together for training, communication, etc. Do you expect them to do this on their own time? Or get paid overtime for it? I sure as heck don't want to go back to my office on a Saturday or Sunday for a staff meeting.

And the "1/2 days" are truly misnomers. They are not half days. Classes only dismiss about an hour earlier than they normally do. Again, if you expect to have better-trained teachers, well, there are only 24 hours in a day.

What I see is that everybody wants everything but with very little personal sacrifice involved. The ONLY thing that is going to fix Duval County schools is to weed out the kids who don't want to be at school and to somehow MAKE parents care! I personally would love to see all male & all female schools, especially at the secondary level, but that would be a logistics nightmare.

And not only Christ, but Crist as well... [rolling my eyes]

I talked to another parent at my kid's school (R.L. Brown) tonight. We like the school however we are not happy with the days off (and after reading fawnlbwtz's post I think I may do a surprise visit on a Wednesday), nor are we satisfied with the FCAT.

A few of us are thinking about banding together to put pressure on Christ and Wise. I am sure there must be other parents out there feeling the same way. Web-based is obviously the way to go to bridge the distances between all FL counties. I am researching tomorrow...

PCollins: We ended up in St. Johns County due to the schooling issue, but have been wrestling w/ the Duval situation as we have contemplated moving into town to be nearer to my office (San Marco area). Unfortunately, we cannot afford private...and like you...paying what I pay in taxes makes me no fan of paying for schooling. So we have considered the magnet programs, but then you have to make the lottery. If you don't, then what? As long as the FCATS increases the disparity between the "haves" and the "have nots", it's almost out of the question to consider moving into town. And I consider myself one to do his best to support the local system (the wife...not so much so).

fawn: I am not sure of the whole "business" thing with the books and all of that, but I do know that there is so much that is missing out from basic, fundamental grade school education. How we were taught or how we learned is a million miles from what our daughter's experience has been. Those "researched" methods of teaching are BS and we as parents can hardly relate (not that we are dumb...we did manage to get our college degrees) at times.

Overall, the current system creates a greater widening of the gap and needs to be reevaluated. Some how, the "powers that be" can find funding to get their special interest projects funded every year, why can they not look to spend that money on an education system that is failing on so many levels? I hear that the Jacksonville Tree Bank fund is hardly ever tapped...why not reconsider it's use for educational needs? If the Mayor can get the requirements for city planning director waived, he can work something out here!

Pcollins: Teacher training Wednesdays were a complete joke at my school. We honestly spent one day's time, going over things such as (I swear to God) why we should grade/make marks in green rather than red (answer: "It's better for their self esteem"). It would have benefitted all teachers if the "training" ttime was used as time to collaborate with other teachers or even just plan lessons and grade papers. Plus, you can't realy do it in the summer b/c teachers aren't ebing paid during that time.

Look, I tend to be reactionary about education because 1) it's so important, 2) I got what I think is a rapidly disappearing great education, and 3) I was honestly so entirely shocked by what I saw in my experiences. However, some of the things you (PC) were saying are the parents' personal remedy to the schools, and mean that your kid can have a good experience: stay involved with your child's education at home, talk to teachers a lot, and generally stress that doing well in school is important to your child. And Stanton, Paxson, Mandarin, Nease, Fletcher, are, from what I saw and experienced, very good schools. I know only two of those are near where we all live, and are highly selective on top of that, but at least all hope isn't lost.
However, the idea that books are merely "revised" to update them isn't entirely accurate. My classroom alone had over probably $3000 worth of FCAT prep books. Now, multiply that by 100 teachers at my school, and then multiply that by however many high schools are in Jax. BIG money. And the schoolw asn't buying new ones b/c they were "outdated"; they were buying new ones b/c the old ones didn't bring up test scores, so the answer must be more new materials with which to prep them.
And that doesn't include all the stupid, useless, waste of money academic programs that the school bought from education companies. That was like 50K per teacher in some departments at my school.
Seriously, education is BIG, BIG business. It is truly like the companies profiting off the war in Iraq: as long as people/companies are making money off the problem, and those same people/companies are feeding bucks back to the politicians, where is the insentive to change anything? And if you think I am living in fantsay/reactionary land, well, I wish that I was, but I speak the truth.

I've talked to a few teachers who verified that books are "revised" by publishing companies, changing the proper names of people in the examples, in order to sell more books to the school system.

Instead of "See Dick Run" the must-have revised edition reads "See George Run."

"Based on my experiences, there is no way in hell I will send my kids to public schools in Duval. NEVER"

But this is what pisses me off...I don't want to live in St Johns or Clay County (personal preference). And sending my kid to a private school while paying property taxes just pisses me off even more. So my hope is that my combine effort to support my kid at home, and fight for better schools locally and through Wise, etc will pay off.

JA - yah, we deal with the days off too. There's "extended day" supervision and off-site camps for when the school is closed. I just think that kids would learn more if they had entire days and entire weeks spent in school.

fawnlbwtz - couldn't teacher training (currently done on the short Wednesdays) be completed during the summer?

Where's the grammar is a good question. I know that, at my school, English teachers were not to teach grammar. Because you could technically get the highest score on teh FCAT essay portion while using completely horrible and improper grammar. So, by that rationale, grammar is not an important thing to be taught.

And that also brings me to a worse point: there was no English class, it was really just reading class. I think what no one realizes, even parents that have kids in schools, is that kids are not being "taught" the way we were. It's totally changed and it's total BS. For example, according to Duval county school leadership, you cannot teach a certain way, or use a certain program, unless that method has been researched, studied by "academics", and such. THis was because of the No Child Left Behind act. While that sounds like a good idea, it's really just a way for academic material companies to sell more books. And, coincidentally, those same companies have doanted huge amounts to Bush and congressmen who support/thought up NCLB. I know, it sounds all conspiracy-ish and crazy, but truly, education is big business these days, and if kids are taught the way we were-- ways that actually, you know, WORKED-- there'd be no money in it.

Wealth was not a thing I had much of growing up, nor did I have much parent discipline (single parent home) to push me through on much. I made it through because of the teachers & schools more than anything else. Nevertheless, having a fostering environment in either arena (home or school...both is best) is key.

As for days off and such...my daughter is in St. Johns county and they have a day or two more of school, but you deal with it. The bigger issue is the FCAT crap we have to submit to. I have a nine year old stressing out over the FCAT and having two hours of homework every night since the beginning of January.

Last time I checked, school is supposed to be a learning environment. Now it's more memorization and test taking. Where's the grammar? the art? the sciences?

Lastly, here's an interesting read my in-laws passed along to me...

http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/Opinion/Editorials/opnOPN71021107.htm

As one who taught in Duval county public schools for several years, there are lots, in my opinion, correct comments here.

- By far, the biggest reason I saw my kids fail was because their parents didn't care. I know if I brought home straight F's my ass would have been tanned. A kid in my class got staright F's all year in all classes, and I remember him getting Xbox for his birthday, always had new trendy clothes. No way that would have happened to me.

- I agree with Phil, too. SO many days off. I mean, there are the 1/2 wednesdays, and other stuff, but there would be times when, in a 2 week period, i would have three days of class because we were doing FCAT prep tests and Benchmark tests and all this other BS.

- Lastly, I really think it would make some people's minds explode if they spent a week in a public high school. I wasn't even at a "bad" school, just a mid-ranger, somewhat well performing, and it dperessed me on a daily basis to think that these kids were our future. I had 17 year old freshman who literally could not read books my class wa sreading in 4th and 5th grade.

Based on my experiences, there is no way in hell I will send my kids to public schools in Duval. NEVER.
And, don't even get me started on FCAT, No Chil Left Behind, etc. b/c that shit is amazingly simple-minded and ignores the reality of today's schools.

A few observations from the father of a 5 1/2 year old:

- Duval County schools have WAY too many days off. Two half days every month, in-service days, etc. I never had this much time off when I went to school.

- It is critical that parents take the time to motivate and assist their kids with school work, building on what was taught in school. This is a partnership here...parents and teachers. My son's best friend is being raised by a low-income single mom with 2 other kids. All of the kids are extremely well-behaved and excel in school. So it's not ALL about wealth.

- Keep your kid's teacher close...call, email, etc with questions re: what they are teaching, where the little crumb-snatcher needs help, etc.

- Get rid of the FCAT. The FCAT has taken the school curriculum hostage and is a piss poor indication of a school overall. Or, if you insist on reading into FCAT scores, at least look at the total picture. Are the teachers and staff motivated and happy with their jobs? Are the kids generating age-level appropriate work? Take a look at the rest of the nation and the rest of the world...is your kid on par with them? If not, supplement or fight for change.

joey.. I know what your saying. I have a similar background. However I would say my education is a result of parental involvment.

So maybe its not wealth or education level but simply parental involvement.

Rampant, I guess I would be the anomaly in your example. Neither of my parents had a college education and I wouldn't consider us weathy by any stretch either. In my case it was teachers and the school that made the difference.

More feed back everyone, please...

Better teachers do not equal higher school grades. The best teachers can't raise school grades if kids enter school behind and have to have little or no help at home. Also there's more mobility in the inner city schools. Kids tend to move around a lot which doesn't help their school performance.

go blue devils, dawg.

"Most likely all the normal indicators, the main one being wealth."

I would disagree with that, and say the main one being education level of the parents. Now that does have links to wealth, but IMO its more about what is expected of the child by the parents.

However, GREAT FIND!