Urban Jacksonville

Public Space is Good, But We Need To Talk Transportation Too

05/29/09 • Posted in: Downtown Jacksonville, Transit by Joey Marchy

Note: this post is intentionally long, take the weekend to absorb and think about it. I encourage you to watch the videos and explore the sites I link to in this post. Please leave your thoughts and plan on a live Urban Jacksonville Chat event to discuss these issues next week.

I’ve always been a supporter of public transportation, but I never connected it 100% to the future health of Jacksonville. To me public transportation was an environmental issue. Fewer people driving means cleaner air, better world, right?

I spent some time last weekend looking into the issue and realized we need to start investing in transportation planning now if we want Jacksonville to be livable and attractive in 20 years.

Let me take you on my journey of discovery from last weekend. It began with Tony Allegretti’s recommendation of Streetsblog:

Streetsblog is a daily news source, online community and political mobilizer for the Livable Streets movement.

Exploring the site led me to the documentary Blueprint America: Road to the Future. While it was corny in places, it got me thinking more about transportation:

An original documentary on the countryâ€™s aging and changing infrastructure, goes to three very different American cities – Denver, New York and Portland, and their surrounding suburbs – to look at each as a microcosm of the challenges and possibilities the country faces as citizens, local and federal officials, and planners struggle to manage a growing America with innovative transportation and sustainable land use policies.

The segment on Portland really teed up the big payoff for me, which was watching the Portland episode of the PBS Series e:2 on Transportation. Earlier in the week my friend Shann Batten, owner of nestliving, recommended I watch the episode. I did. It changed me and what I want for this city. You can buy it for 1.99 on iTunes. I highly recommend it.

My main takeaway from both shows is transit planning cannot be done in two years, but we can start planning now. Also, we should take a serious look at a street car line with a permanent track to link our urban neighborhoods.

We can start by “reconnecting our urban core neighborhoods with fixed mass transit“, as Ennis Davis from Metro Jacksonville said in a comment he left on this blog last week.

This post could not have had better timing with today’s release of the Metro Jacksonville post Jacksonville Should Love A Streetcar: Ten Reasons. The writing is on the wall today!

Well-conceived streetcars do much more for a city besides move people from point A to point B. As fixed-rail transit, they uniquely shape urban land-use, development, and growth patterns. The “streetcar effect” serves to stimulate desirable development along the line. In fact, streetcar lines shaped how most American cities (including Austin) developed in the early 1900s. – Jacksonville Should Love A Streetcar: Ten Reasons

We discussed this issue Tuesday night on Urban Jacksonville Weekly, you can find it around minute 23:00. During the discussion I make a case for installing fixed rail, mass transit by arguing it will double property values on either side of the rail line and qaudruple values nears transit stops. Cool eh? The video below is about the modern streetcar in Portland.

The Modern Streetcar, Portland

Imagine a free, or event paid, streetcar that connects Downtown to the stadium via Bay Street. Maybe the streetcar turns North on A. Philip Randolf and runs through Oakland to Springfield. From Springfield it could turn South through LaVilla to 5 Points and Riverside, then back Downtown.

Streetcars promote growth add economic development in a myriad of different ways. The make downtown housing more affordable, bring in more customers to support downtown retail, improve property values, create a more vibrant city, and increase public safety by keeping more eyes on the street which improves the overall business climate.

The Streetcar is a powerful tool for stimulating economic development. In Portland (Oregon) an investment of $72 million dollars has yielded $2.28 billion in economic development, 7,248 housing units, 4.6 million sf of office, institutional, retail and hotel uses, and allowed the number of cars per unit of housing to be reduced. – Stimuluswatch.org

A recent Denver Post story noted property values had increased 4 percent along the Southeast light rail line â€“ the Post called it â€œthe money trainâ€ â€“ while declining by 7.5 percent regionwide. Portlandâ€™s Pearl District has seen property values increase more than 1,000 percent along its streetcar line since 2001, while Tampa has seen increases of up to 400 percent. Another recent study found property values along the light rail system in Dallas increased 50 percent from 2005 to 2007, noting that existing and planned development near stations would bring in an additional $127 million in tax revenues a year. – Capturing the Value of Transit

Could a streetcar help jump start Bay Street, strengthen the Oakland neighborhood and revive LaVilla? Let’s continue to refine and make our public spaces the best they can be, but also open up the transit discussion.

In an attempt to get the discussion started, we’ve invited and confirmed representatives from JTA to guest host a transit edition of Urban Jacksonville Weekly. We’re in the process of confirming times, but that show will be coming soon. I’m also planning a live Urban Jacksonville chat next week to discuss this post and other transit issues.

Mayor Peyton commented in his press conference that “it’s possible to make Jacksonville a great city, because other cities have done it.” He said it much more eloquently but, now is the time to start planning for our future.

Some Other Articles I Liked

How Transportation Commissioner Janette Sadik-Khan Manages to Be Equal Parts Jane Jacobs and Robert Moses
Keeping Talent (& their kids) in Cities
The Mysterious Math of Cities and Math and the City
Florida High Speed Rail – Brain Dead In Florida

This entry was posted on Friday, May 29th, 2009 at 7:09 am and is filed under Downtown Jacksonville, Transit. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

Tags: Livable Streets, portland, Shann Batten, streetcar

Joey Marchy

Based on the response to this post, sounds like we have a little grassroots movement going. Interesting...

Also, we had Bob Mann on Urban Jacksonville Weekly tonight to talk streetcars and transit. It was awesome! I'll be posting the audio this week.
g8rluvr

@urbanjax

Regarding establishing an urban growth boundary - in 2004, Volusia County approved a 2004 charter amendment for urban growth boundaries. However, this was overturned due to a lawsuit filed by the Volusia Home Builders Association. The citizens were trying again in 2006, but I don't know what happened to that effort. Here's a link to some Oregon urban growth boundary information, though: http://snurl.com/jbhqp.

As for Jacksonville establishing one, it appears the new growth management law signed by Crist will require the City to adopt one, but just how meaningful will that be, I don't know. If you look around, pretty much everything is built up. How much agriculture land do we have left? Does anybody know?

And the Governor just signed a bill exempting the outer beltway from paying taxes, so that public/private partnership toll road project will get started up again. It is primarily located in large expanses of undeveloped land. The road will have 8 interchanges, that will only help to spur development in one of the last remaining rural areas of Jacksonville. And the worst part is, there will be no roads or inadequate roads to handle that growth - and under the new growth management law, it appears developers won't have to pay for any road improvements....at least not for any projects undertaken prior to any mobility fee that ends up being put in place.
g8rluvr

Scott Clem was director of Growth Management Services, and also held other positions for St. Johns County before he moved to JTA to lead their long-range planning initiatives.
JasonCDG

Interesting article on what we should do with the GM plants now that we all own 60% of GM:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=248
thelakelander

^Bill Killingsworth is the Interim Planning Director. I believe Lisa Ransom, worked for a while in NYC, before joining COJ.

Zyscovich Architects, out of Miami, are the official consultants hired by the city to develop a vision plan for the Urban Core, Southeast and Arlington planning districts.
http://www.zyscovich.com/project.cfm?pid=387
Shaan

We do not need our city's top planner to take care of our situation. We need another city's top planner with a proven track record and fresh eye's to move Jacksonville in a positive, livable direction.
9a is my backyard

@ theurbancore

"Who is the city’s top planner? I should know this but do not."

Brad Thoburn left the post in March (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=51870) and the spot has yet to be filled to my knowledge. Someone here probably knows much more about it than I do.

@ Joey

"How do we get the City to take action on an existing plan for street cars when Ocklawaha has been advocating new forms of mass transit for 29 years to no avail."

I agree with Lake, I think the public is looking for benefits that public transit can provide. That's not to say it will be easy, but I think it's feasible. While the streetcar plan is a start, we need a comprehensive, multi-modal regional transit plan, much like the one Met Jax has been pushing. As great as downtown streetcars would be, we need to deal with getting people to work on the Southside, people commuting from St. Johns and Clay counties, etc. I think the article Ock wrote a week or two ago hit the nail right on the head: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-may-birth-of-a-new-livable-city-a-blueprint-for-jacksonville

As far as additional voices go, are you looking for more people for the UJW show or just for the transit chat? I don't know of any urban planners, but UNF has burgeoning railroad and transportation engineering programs. While I don't think there's anyone there who is an expert for this discussion, they may know someone who could join the chat or the UJW show by phone (if that's even an option) and provide some insight. It may even get them more involved in pushing the plan through. Let me know and I'll do some digging.

I'm sure Lake or Ock can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Scott Clem is a certified planner. He's obviously not impartial, but I'm pretty sure that's his background.

@ Lake

I agree, I think the recent JTA system revamp was largely positive. We'll have to see how effective it is, but I think it was handled properly and executed well and shows what I hope is a new direction for JTA: smart planning!
theurbancore

On the topic of do roads pay for themselves or even come close. I think we will see more on this but the answer in Texas is....NO
http://www.txdot.gov/KeepTexasMovingNewsletter/11202006.html#Cost

Who is the city's top planner? I should know this but do not.
thelakelander

^Yes. MJ/Jax Transit/Light Rail Jax have been long proponents of improving existing bus service and JTA appears to being that with the recent system revamp, modifying their BRT plans, extending the PCT to farmer's market and attempting to do a public/private deal for bus shelters.

However, even while these changes are in the works, modifications should be made in relation to a plan that will complement future rail corridors. This can not be done without locking down a commitment to various forms of rail and routes.

As for extremely qualified urban planners.....any suggestions?
Joey Marchy

If anyone knows a qualified Urban Planner, please invite them to the chat. I don't know anyone with those credentials. I'll announce the chat on the blog tomorrow, but I'm planning for this Thursday at 8pm.
kzinn77

I don't want to sound like a broken record, and I think that Bob Mann and the boys over at MJ are transportation genius, but has anyone thought about getting an extremely qualified urban planner in on the discussion? It's only going to make this whole plan more successful, sustainable and attainable.
Also, Lakelander, has anyone proposed improving the bus system that we already have? I.E. decreasing wait times, reliability, better and available system map, more routes, etc. I know this isn't what everyone really wants but it would be easy to implement while we wait for something more permanent?
thelakelander

Joey, the JTA preliminary streetcar routes are a good start, but when this city gets to the point where we are serious about moving forward, many things can be done to drop their $17 million/mile estimate. Streetcar lines should not have to cost that much. You can build a basic light rail line in that price range.

1. Eliminate couplets. Couplets can basically be described as a pair of one-way routes that are a block or two a part. Instead to with a single bi-directional line with passing sidings. This will stretch the initial length out, penetrating deeper into urban neighborhoods, while reducing the amount of track infrastructure needed.

2. Use Heritage cars (cheaper than purchasing modern streetcars). While the Portland cars look nice, they are also expensive. Modern streetcars (ex. Portland, Seattle SLUT, Tacoma Link, etc.) cost three times as much as Heritage or Vintage Cars (ex. Dallas M-Line Streetcar, Little Rock River Rail, Tampa TECO line, etc.). Track infrastructure can support both, so go cheap and "no frills" to get something initially done for an affordable price and add the bells and whistles as time goes on.

3. Don't spend much on stops. Most of New Orleans' streetcar stops are nothing more than a sign and a sidewalk, yet the system carries +30,000 riders a day. We could save millions by incorporating a serious of simple stops and having the private sector pay/sponser more elaborate stops.

4. Coordination. This city continues to rip up and redo streets in the urban core. It would be good, if street improvements being made, also left room for future streetcar use. That way we won't have to rip up the street again, like we'll have to do with Main or Bay.

--------
"How do we get the City to take action on an existing plan for street cars when Ocklawaha has been advocating new forms of mass transit for 29 years to no avail."

Easy. Times have changed. Ock's early attempts went no where because there was no alternative media to put his arguments in the spotlight.

Most of our leaders would like to advance politically. You can't do that if you don't listen to the public you're elected to serve. So, make it a public issue, like we do with crime, education and roads, and something will get accomplished.

In just three short years, we've been able to do the following:

1. Stop BRT from ruining Adams Street.
2. Stop JTA from building dedicated busways.
3. Extend the faux potato chip truck trolleys to Five Points and the Beaver Street Farmers Market
4. Get FDOT to correct downtown I-95 signage
5. Get JTA to finally conduct commuter rail and streetcar studies.
6. Get JTA to incorporate the S-Line corridor and Springfield Warehouse District into their future rail plans.
7. Stop BRT plans that would have domolished the old Club Kartouche building and the one next to it for BRT bus station.

None of these things happen in the time they did without the use of websites like Metro Jacksonville and Urban Jax educating the public on issues routinely ignored by local officials and corporate media outlets.

If the things mentioned above can be accomplished by one local group of concerned citizens in three years, imagine the push that can be created if we all joined forces on this issue. Especially, with the Mayor interested in talking "vision" and making the core a first class place.

-----

Biggie Tea, great point.

The I-95 Overland Bridge project is expected to cost $170 million for about a mile of highway. Even at JTA's bloated streetcar estimate of $17 million per mile, $170 million would be enough to implement a rail link from Downtown to the Airport or Downtown to Fleming Island.
biggie tea

Road money is far less accountable than skyway or any other mass transit. So when someone says the skyway scares them ask them how the wonderwood is paying off. roads = billions. Rails = millions.
Joey Marchy

@9a is my backyard

It’s just a matter of getting a plan together and talking about it.

Don't we already have a good plan, as thelakelander pointed out this post?

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jan-streetcars-coming-to-downtown-jacksonville

How do we get the City to take action on an existing plan for street cars when Ocklawaha has been advocating new forms of mass transit for 29 years to no avail.

@Ocklawaha I know Scott Clem and Mike Miller will be guesting on the Urban Jacksonville Weekly, but not until June 23rd.

I'll announce the transit chat later this week, I'm going to be shooting for Thursday night.
9a is my backyard

It's really good to see transportation getting more and more press time, especially in Jacksonville. I have to give Metro Jacksonville a lot of credit; I think they have done more than anyone to get transit on the map as an important issue. If not for Met Jax, I think we'd be in the initial phases of JTA's $1 bil BRT plan. As frustrated as JTA might be by Met Jax, I'd like to think they at least begrudgingly appreciate it. Even Scott Clem told me last February that Met Jax was helping to create a better transit plan for the city (I'm paraphrasing).

Personally, I think there's enough desire to push forward on an ambitious transit plan. It won't be without obstacles - the failure of the Skyway has most J'villers I talk to scared of future mass transit. But I think we should use that to our advantage by making sure we plan our transit system well and EXPLAIN it to the community. PROVE and DEMONSTRATE how it will work. This is where I think Met Jax is invaluable as it's what Met Jax already does well.

Like I said, I think there's enough desire to push forward an impressive transit plan, it's just a matter of getting the supporters together and translating that desire into action. Public policy makers have started to get behind it. JCCI has been talking about Jacksonville's transportation issues. Even the politicians are starting to pay attention. General Council Rick Mullaney (in a possible warm up for the 2011 race) has even mentioned transportation.

It's just a matter of getting a plan together and talking about it. Work the kinks out through public hearings and discussions, make sure it addresses each communities needs so they have a reason to USE the system.

Again, this is where Met Jax comes in. I think Met Jax is more important to our community that our struggling but existing bus system just because of the potential a well planned transit plan could have on the city. I always get a little annoyed with the comparisons. Jacksonville is already a sweet city. Having a transit plan would just allow us to get around better and maybe, just maybe, be able to brag about our history, get some museums set up, start saving our historic buildings and live up to our potential.
Ocklawaha

Anytime, anywhere, (afternoons or evenings are best) I'd be happy to meet with you. James Boyle, and Scott Clem would be the most up to date guys at JTA. Trouble is they'll give you Mike Miller, who, truth be told, is really a streetcar supporter. But Mike is an ex-radio DJ from Orlando, and can only parrot the JTA line. For this reason Boyle and Clem are often "under the gun" and cannot say anything meaningful. Lakelander, Lunican and Stephendare are all able to address this issue from unique points of view. Lastly my own sites:
lightrailjacksonville@freewebs.com
or
jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com
are open sites. All I ask is a link and a credit line. Glad to have you in the 29Th year of my fight for LIGHT RAIL in JACKSONVILLE!

Ocklawaha
waste management

This is similar to bidding the landfill. In old Jacksonville if the administration and big corporations want something joe six pack would shrug it off. What are you going to do? Now people are mobilized and can have their voice heard en masse. It was proven with the no bid contract. With the roads and row it is only a handful of powerful corporations, egotistical attorneys who buy and sell elected officials and coj staffers opinions (with jag tix) and super rich families. They can't handle a fight with overwhelming public opinion because they never had to. Waste management would have had that contract 3 years ago but times are changing. I agree with lakelander. This fight has to be organized. Jta wants it but the above mentioned king makers are laced in their board past and present. No matter. It may only take a few months of overwhelming public opinion and activism to establish the city as one of the best and most useful streetcar connected urban centers. Ask waste management. We can totally have this.
thelakelander

I trust that JTA truly believes that streetcars would be a good thing for Jacksonville. If not, they would not have made the effort to conduct a streetcar study for a system connecting Riverside to Springfield, via downtown last year:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jan-streetcars-coming-to-downtown-jacksonville

JTA's proposed streetcar routes:
<img alt="" src="http://media.metrojacksonville.com/photos/images/transit/jta_streetcar_study/streetcarrreport090808_page_27.jpg" width="400">

The problem will be convincing the Mayor's Office and City Council to allow JTA to use the $100 million in BJP rapid transit funds for capital costs instead of ROW purchase only. The Mayor has already gone on the record for wanting to take the rapid transit funds to finish BJP road projects throughout the city. With the Mayor's visioning proposal, now is the time to bring the mobility dicussion to the top of the discussion. This is why its a good thing you guys are joining the transit push. United we stand, divided we fall.

Also, it can't be marketed as a streetcar line only for the urban core alone, in a sprawling city like Jacksonville. It will have to be promoted as the initial segment of a regional wide integrated mass transit system to get citywide buy in. After all, Rome was not built in a day. Neither will streetcars, commuter and light rail in Jacksonville.
Joey Marchy

@sckeller Thanks for chiming in with the link. I'm so glad your partner made the video and shared it with everyone. Hopefully we'll be able to convince the local government here that streetcars would be a good thing.
Joey Marchy

@JH The studio barely fits 4 people, any more than that would be a stretch. I'm working on some ideas, I'll keep everyone in the loop.
JH

"Downtown is the global identity of Jacksonville!"

If only the Mayor and the other 18 Councilmembers would recognize this!

Joey, how big is the UJ studio? Maybe this should be re-scheduled and hosted at a time/place where the citizenry can show up and participate/support?

I know readers of this blog are tech savvy, and would feel comfortable participating remotely, but the pols/public agency execs might be more compelled by bodies than bits...
Joey Marchy

@g8rluvr Portland does owe a lot of it's success to the Urban Growth Boundary but I'm not sure how feasible it would be to implement something like that here in Duval County. Does anyone know?

@thelakelander I'll be in touch this week to figure out what we can do to get Bob Mann into the discussion.

I am planning two Live Chat events next week and I would like to get everyone who commented here, involved in the discussion.

The first event will be a trial run of using Cover It Live during this week's Urban Jacksonville Weekly. If it works this would be a good way to have Bob in the studio virtually.

The next event will be Thursday night on this blog and it will be transit focused. I'd like to discuss the current transit issues we are experiencing and come up with some solutions. I'm going to invite a few guests, but we'll see how that goes.
thelakelander

Too bigg to fail,

Without the transit savvy guy, to ask the right follow up questions or comment on the tough questions JTA may answer, the process could end up with typical regurgitated answers.

Since the studio is too small, maybe an option could be to have that transit savvy guy on before or directly after the public entity's show?
thelakelander

Portland may not be the best example for Jacksonville. Charlotte, Tampa, Little Rock, Memphis, Savannah and Dallas are all regional cities with streetcar systems that could serve as good examples for Jacksonville.
sckeller

My partner made the Portland Streetcar video you used here. We are working to bring streetcars back the the East San Francisco Bay Area. If you'd like to see and use some good hard facts about all forms of transprotation checkout the report by USPIRG's Educations Fund called, "A Better Way to Go". You'll find a link to it at our website, www.reconnectingemeryville.com, under Useful Links.

Keep up the good work and go by rail.
g8rluvr

One of the things that most people miss when they take a look at Portland and see how wonderfully it's DT functions, is the fact that it had rigorous planning standards and a virtually unchangeable urban growth boundary established. I agree with KZinn77 in post 3. It has to start with a good plan and good planners (or a good boss who is willing to let their planners do the good job they know how to do). Jacksonville is seriously lacking in these areas.
too bigg to fail

I don't think the current studio would fit but that would be great for UJW 2.0. In advance of that send the tough questions and maybe we can have call or tweet or email ins.
thelakelander

"JWU should invite Bob Mann (Ocklawaha and MJ) to be in the studio at the same time."

Sorry, this post should say:

UJW should invite Bob Mann (Ocklawaha at MJ) to be in the studio at the same time.
thelakelander

Its great to see you guys jump on the movement for better mass transit in Jacksonville. While considerable progress has been made on our end, it will take an army to help establish a real rail system.

Just a few words of advice for UJW: After being directly involved in debates, committees and talks with JTA for better transit options, JWU should invite Bob Mann (Ocklawaha and MJ) to be in the studio at the same time.

I say this because everything JTA will tell you and that UJW will bring to the table most likely has already been addressed at one point or another with Metro Jacksonville over the last three years and Bob Mann, since the 1970s.

Bob is a railroad and transit guy who was the original opponent against the skyway in the 1970s and predicted its failure well before it got off the ground. He also suggested the implementation of a light rail system as an alternative during that time.

Check it out, the story is an interesting read:

27 Years Later: Jacksonville Transit (11.08.07)
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-nov-27-years-later-jacksonville-transit

To really help push the fight for rail transit forward, better dialouge would be created if you have a transit savvy person (Mann is probably the most knowledgeable person on this subject in the First Coast), not affliated with any public entity also participating in the discussion.

By transit savvy, I mean someone who understands how much various rail systems cost, are designed and how they can be funded, in addition to how JTA works.

In the meantime, take advantage of our transit archives section to gather additional information or answer questions you may have about mass transit, before going into that meeting.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/transit

http://jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/
road vs rail

UJW is going to have JTA in the studio very soon. Get your questions together so we can make good use of their time.
thelakelander

Does Richard Clark honestly think road projects will bring vibrancy back to downtown and the urban core? If so, I'd be interested to see some successful examples of this type of strategy.

I'm all for improving streetscapes and beautifying medians.....if they have streetcar tracks in them! Doing such, will actually reduce the cost of installing a system and the need to maintain overgrown landscaped medians.
JasonCDG

I like this new topical name you're picking out for each comment now, dj UM.
kzinn77

Reggae vs Hip Hop, that's a great point! Downtown is the global identity of Jacksonville! What I mean is by making Downtown accessible, livable and creating venues for entertainment / conferences, we have an opportunity to give back to the entire City of Jacksonville. When I see new roads going up on the outskirts of the city, I get so upset because the only people those roads benefit are the people in that local area not that some new roads aren't needed. But if we used those same resources to improve downtown / make it more accessible it would benefit everyone by bringing money and business to our whole city!
reggae vs hip hop

The ums gave me away I guess. I wasn't talking about taking precious road dollars away from anyone...but spending on river access downtown helps the entire city. Look at RAM or jazz fest or any free event that brings people to the river and the one thing you can be sure of is that every neighborhood in the city is representing. And enjoying. That can't be said for every road.
JasonCDG

Sweet Joey, sign us up.
Joey Marchy

Mark, you are 100% right, I heard the same thing, or at least Councilman Clark's agenda came across loud and clear.

Even when asked about downtown and riverfront development by RAM director Tony Allegretti, Clark quickly shifted the conversation back to road projects.

To me that is a bit disconcerting. Stick with us though, we have a plan and we have a voice. Don't get discouraged. This is our city too, we just need to keep being vocal and let the people in charge know that we want transportation discussions to share the spotlight with road building.
Mark Barilla

I totally agree with nearly everything you guys post. ButI wanted to share something I heard this morning on the way to work on NPR that happens to be very coincidentally timed.

On air was Jacksonville City Council President Richard Clark and he was talking about downtown redevelopment. I don't want to misquote (I wish there was a transcript online), but I believe he said something akin to placing emphasis on finishing all road projects downtown before starting or thinking about any further redevelopment. He placed such a strong emphasis on roadwork (I assume highway renovation as well as interior streets) and even mentioned "beautifying medians and public spaces."

It just seems so absurd, with empty buildings scattered throughout downtown and no real attractive development going on, to beautify medians - which he then said the city could not afford to upkeep.

I hate to be a debbie downer, but I just wanted to express the pragmatic view that these are the ideals of people in charge - Portland, we aren't, that's for sure.
kzinn77

If you are really interested in getting into a discussion about urban planning I would recommend reading books on New Urbanism, such as "The New Urbanism" by Peter Katz. It features the work of both , Andres Duany and Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk, who designed Seaside, among many others. You can also start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_urbanism
Also, Jane Jacobs classic "The Death and Life of Great American Cities" is a fantastic read. I love to see all the great support for public transportation on both UJ and MJ, but I wish that I would see a little more focus on the importance of hiring good designers and planners. The fact is that Urban Planning is a profession like being a Doctor or Lawyer and while we all have our two cents about how it should or could work, I think it's important to give a voice to those with years of "quality" experience in the field. Most of the cities cited on both MJ and UJ hire some of the best Urban Planners in the world to help design the re-birth of their city. For whatever reason, it seems that Jacksonville is unaware of this. After receiving a Bachelors and Masters in Architecture, many courses on Urban Planning and 10 years of experience with the built environment, I still feel confounded by Urban Planning. It's a massive job! But with proper design and tons of community support anything is possible for Jacksonville. Thanks for your interested and your post Joey!
nestliving

me too Daniel. You are right on the money. I strongly believe that Jacksonville could very well be the next Portland (with better weather and one of the coolest rivers I have ever seen!)
If we could just get the city to stop thinking "Vibrant Downtown" and start thinking "LIVABLE Downtown" our common goal of a "Great City" would be reached much faster and much cheaper with fewer mistakes in between.
Daniel

If there's any city I hope Jacksonville would model itself on, it would be Portland. I saw that e2 episode when it first aired, and it not only reinforced my love for Portland, it made me realize how important it is that we get started on this *now*. Portland didn't accomplish everything overnight. It took time and smart planning. That's the first lesson to learn. We've reached a point where it's time city leaders (and residents) begin preparing Jacksonville for the long term issues it will face, transit being one of the most important. I'm glad people are talking about the need for a better mass transit system. 20 years from now, it's my hope we will have that system in place. If we're still talking about it then, I'm not sure what the future holds for Jacksonville.

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