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	<title>Comments on: Public Space is Good, But We Need To Talk Transportation Too</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/</link>
	<description>A blog about Downtown Jacksonville, Springfield and other urban neighborhoods</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 01:44:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Joey Marchy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/comment-page-1/#comment-187928</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey Marchy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/?p=2369#comment-187928</guid>
		<description>Based on the response to this post, sounds like we have a little grassroots movement going. Interesting... 

Also, we had Bob Mann on Urban Jacksonville Weekly tonight to talk streetcars and transit. It was awesome! I&#039;ll be posting the audio this week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on the response to this post, sounds like we have a little grassroots movement going. Interesting&#8230; </p>
<p>Also, we had Bob Mann on Urban Jacksonville Weekly tonight to talk streetcars and transit. It was awesome! I&#8217;ll be posting the audio this week.</p>
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		<title>By: g8rluvr</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/comment-page-1/#comment-187927</link>
		<dc:creator>g8rluvr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/?p=2369#comment-187927</guid>
		<description>@urbanjax

Regarding establishing an urban growth boundary - in 2004, Volusia County approved a 2004 charter amendment for urban growth boundaries. However, this was overturned due to a lawsuit filed by the Volusia Home Builders Association.   The citizens were trying again in 2006, but I don&#039;t know what happened to that effort.  Here&#039;s a link to some Oregon urban growth boundary information, though: http://snurl.com/jbhqp. 

 As for Jacksonville establishing one, it appears the new growth management law signed by Crist will require the City to adopt one, but just how meaningful will that be, I don&#039;t know.  If you look around, pretty much everything is built up. How much agriculture land do we have left?  Does anybody know?

  And the Governor just signed a bill exempting the outer beltway from paying taxes, so that public/private partnership toll road project will get started up again.   It is primarily located in large expanses of undeveloped land.  The road will have 8 interchanges, that will only help to spur development in one of the last remaining rural areas of Jacksonville.  And the worst part is, there will be no roads or inadequate roads to handle that growth - and under the new growth management law, it appears developers won&#039;t have to pay for any road improvements....at least not for any projects undertaken prior to any mobility fee that ends up being put in place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@urbanjax</p>
<p>Regarding establishing an urban growth boundary &#8211; in 2004, Volusia County approved a 2004 charter amendment for urban growth boundaries. However, this was overturned due to a lawsuit filed by the Volusia Home Builders Association.   The citizens were trying again in 2006, but I don&#8217;t know what happened to that effort.  Here&#8217;s a link to some Oregon urban growth boundary information, though: <a href="http://snurl.com/jbhqp" rel="nofollow">http://snurl.com/jbhqp</a>. </p>
<p> As for Jacksonville establishing one, it appears the new growth management law signed by Crist will require the City to adopt one, but just how meaningful will that be, I don&#8217;t know.  If you look around, pretty much everything is built up. How much agriculture land do we have left?  Does anybody know?</p>
<p>  And the Governor just signed a bill exempting the outer beltway from paying taxes, so that public/private partnership toll road project will get started up again.   It is primarily located in large expanses of undeveloped land.  The road will have 8 interchanges, that will only help to spur development in one of the last remaining rural areas of Jacksonville.  And the worst part is, there will be no roads or inadequate roads to handle that growth &#8211; and under the new growth management law, it appears developers won&#8217;t have to pay for any road improvements&#8230;.at least not for any projects undertaken prior to any mobility fee that ends up being put in place.</p>
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		<title>By: g8rluvr</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/comment-page-1/#comment-187926</link>
		<dc:creator>g8rluvr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/?p=2369#comment-187926</guid>
		<description>Scott Clem was director of Growth Management Services, and also held other positions for St. Johns County before he moved to JTA to lead their long-range planning initiatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott Clem was director of Growth Management Services, and also held other positions for St. Johns County before he moved to JTA to lead their long-range planning initiatives.</p>
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		<title>By: JasonCDG</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/comment-page-1/#comment-187897</link>
		<dc:creator>JasonCDG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 14:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/?p=2369#comment-187897</guid>
		<description>Interesting article on what we should do with the GM plants now that we all own 60% of GM: 

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=248</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article on what we should do with the GM plants now that we all own 60% of GM: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=248" rel="nofollow">http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=248</a></p>
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		<title>By: thelakelander</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/comment-page-1/#comment-187886</link>
		<dc:creator>thelakelander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/?p=2369#comment-187886</guid>
		<description>^Bill Killingsworth is the Interim Planning Director.  I believe Lisa Ransom, worked for a while in NYC, before joining COJ.

Zyscovich Architects, out of Miami, are the official consultants hired by the city to develop a vision plan for the Urban Core, Southeast and Arlington planning districts.
http://www.zyscovich.com/project.cfm?pid=387</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>^Bill Killingsworth is the Interim Planning Director.  I believe Lisa Ransom, worked for a while in NYC, before joining COJ.</p>
<p>Zyscovich Architects, out of Miami, are the official consultants hired by the city to develop a vision plan for the Urban Core, Southeast and Arlington planning districts.<br />
<a href="http://www.zyscovich.com/project.cfm?pid=387" rel="nofollow">http://www.zyscovich.com/project.cfm?pid=387</a></p>
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		<title>By: Shaan</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/comment-page-1/#comment-187885</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/?p=2369#comment-187885</guid>
		<description>We do not need our city&#039;s top planner to take care of our situation. We need another city&#039;s top planner with a proven track record and fresh eye&#039;s to move Jacksonville in a positive, livable direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We do not need our city&#8217;s top planner to take care of our situation. We need another city&#8217;s top planner with a proven track record and fresh eye&#8217;s to move Jacksonville in a positive, livable direction.</p>
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		<title>By: 9a is my backyard</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/comment-page-1/#comment-187876</link>
		<dc:creator>9a is my backyard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/?p=2369#comment-187876</guid>
		<description>@ theurbancore

&quot;Who is the cityâ€™s top planner? I should know this but do not.&quot;

Brad Thoburn left the post in March (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=51870) and the spot has yet to be filled to my knowledge.  Someone here probably knows much more about it than I do.

@ Joey

&quot;How do we get the City to take action on an existing plan for street cars when Ocklawaha has been advocating new forms of mass transit for 29 years to no avail.&quot;

I agree with Lake, I think the public is looking for benefits that public transit can provide.  That&#039;s not to say it will be easy, but I think it&#039;s feasible.  While the streetcar plan is a start, we need a comprehensive, multi-modal regional transit plan, much like the one Met Jax has been pushing.  As great as downtown streetcars would be, we need to deal with getting people to work on the Southside, people commuting from St. Johns and Clay counties, etc.  I think the article Ock wrote a week or two ago hit the nail right on the head: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-may-birth-of-a-new-livable-city-a-blueprint-for-jacksonville

As far as additional voices go, are you looking for more people for the UJW show or just for the transit chat?  I don&#039;t know of any urban planners, but UNF has burgeoning railroad and transportation engineering programs.  While I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anyone there who is an expert for this discussion, they may know someone who could join the chat or the UJW show by phone (if that&#039;s even an option) and provide some insight.  It may even get them more involved in pushing the plan through.  Let me know and I&#039;ll do some digging.

I&#039;m sure Lake or Ock can correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but I believe Scott Clem is a certified planner.  He&#039;s obviously not impartial, but I&#039;m pretty sure that&#039;s his background.

@ Lake

I agree, I think the recent JTA system revamp was largely positive.  We&#039;ll have to see how effective it is, but I think it was handled properly and executed well and shows what I hope is a new direction for JTA: smart planning!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ theurbancore</p>
<p>&#8220;Who is the cityâ€™s top planner? I should know this but do not.&#8221;</p>
<p>Brad Thoburn left the post in March (<a href="http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=51870" rel="nofollow">http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=51870</a>) and the spot has yet to be filled to my knowledge.  Someone here probably knows much more about it than I do.</p>
<p>@ Joey</p>
<p>&#8220;How do we get the City to take action on an existing plan for street cars when Ocklawaha has been advocating new forms of mass transit for 29 years to no avail.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree with Lake, I think the public is looking for benefits that public transit can provide.  That&#8217;s not to say it will be easy, but I think it&#8217;s feasible.  While the streetcar plan is a start, we need a comprehensive, multi-modal regional transit plan, much like the one Met Jax has been pushing.  As great as downtown streetcars would be, we need to deal with getting people to work on the Southside, people commuting from St. Johns and Clay counties, etc.  I think the article Ock wrote a week or two ago hit the nail right on the head: <a href="http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-may-birth-of-a-new-livable-city-a-blueprint-for-jacksonville" rel="nofollow">http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-may-birth-of-a-new-livable-city-a-blueprint-for-jacksonville</a></p>
<p>As far as additional voices go, are you looking for more people for the UJW show or just for the transit chat?  I don&#8217;t know of any urban planners, but UNF has burgeoning railroad and transportation engineering programs.  While I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anyone there who is an expert for this discussion, they may know someone who could join the chat or the UJW show by phone (if that&#8217;s even an option) and provide some insight.  It may even get them more involved in pushing the plan through.  Let me know and I&#8217;ll do some digging.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure Lake or Ock can correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but I believe Scott Clem is a certified planner.  He&#8217;s obviously not impartial, but I&#8217;m pretty sure that&#8217;s his background.</p>
<p>@ Lake</p>
<p>I agree, I think the recent JTA system revamp was largely positive.  We&#8217;ll have to see how effective it is, but I think it was handled properly and executed well and shows what I hope is a new direction for JTA: smart planning!</p>
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		<title>By: theurbancore</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/comment-page-1/#comment-187863</link>
		<dc:creator>theurbancore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/?p=2369#comment-187863</guid>
		<description>On the topic of do roads pay for themselves or even come close. I think we will see more on this but the answer in Texas is....NO
http://www.txdot.gov/KeepTexasMovingNewsletter/11202006.html#Cost

Who is the city&#039;s top planner? I should know this but do not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the topic of do roads pay for themselves or even come close. I think we will see more on this but the answer in Texas is&#8230;.NO<br />
<a href="http://www.txdot.gov/KeepTexasMovingNewsletter/11202006.html#Cost" rel="nofollow">http://www.txdot.gov/KeepTexasMovingNewsletter/11202006.html#Cost</a></p>
<p>Who is the city&#8217;s top planner? I should know this but do not.</p>
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		<title>By: thelakelander</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/comment-page-1/#comment-187854</link>
		<dc:creator>thelakelander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/?p=2369#comment-187854</guid>
		<description>^Yes.  MJ/Jax Transit/Light Rail Jax have been long proponents of improving existing bus service and JTA appears to being that with the recent system revamp, modifying their BRT plans, extending the PCT to farmer&#039;s market and attempting to do a public/private deal for bus shelters.

However, even while these changes are in the works, modifications should be made in relation to a plan that will complement future rail corridors.  This can not be done without locking down a commitment to various forms of rail and routes.

As for extremely qualified urban planners.....any suggestions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>^Yes.  MJ/Jax Transit/Light Rail Jax have been long proponents of improving existing bus service and JTA appears to being that with the recent system revamp, modifying their BRT plans, extending the PCT to farmer&#8217;s market and attempting to do a public/private deal for bus shelters.</p>
<p>However, even while these changes are in the works, modifications should be made in relation to a plan that will complement future rail corridors.  This can not be done without locking down a commitment to various forms of rail and routes.</p>
<p>As for extremely qualified urban planners&#8230;..any suggestions?</p>
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		<title>By: Joey Marchy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too/comment-page-1/#comment-187853</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey Marchy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/?p=2369#comment-187853</guid>
		<description>If anyone knows a qualified Urban Planner, please invite them to the chat. I don&#039;t know anyone with those credentials. I&#039;ll announce the chat on the blog tomorrow, but I&#039;m planning for this Thursday at 8pm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If anyone knows a qualified Urban Planner, please invite them to the chat. I don&#8217;t know anyone with those credentials. I&#8217;ll announce the chat on the blog tomorrow, but I&#8217;m planning for this Thursday at 8pm.</p>
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